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lackadaisicalnereid: caroline forbes in tvd (cece/schmidt)
[personal profile] lackadaisicalnereid
I'm done with the picspam, obviously. SO time to fill my life with other shows and things and whatever.



ALSO I AM DONE WITH VERONICA MARS. I WILL MISS THIS SHOW. LOGAN IS STILL THE BEST.
ALSO I CANNOT BELIEVE THERE WAS BLOOD ON HIS FIRST FOUR KNUCKLES, LIKE ARE YOU KIDDING ME SHOW?




What would you like? I'd like my money's worth.
Try explaining a life bundled with episodes of this—
swallowing mud, swallowing glass, the smell of blood
on the first four knuckles.

We pull our boots on with both hands
but we can't punch ourselves awake and all I can do
is stand on the curb and say Sorry
about the blood in your mouth. I wish it was mine.


I couldn't get the boy to kill me, but I wore his jacket for the longest time.



Basically, doomed ships forever. And Logan. THAT BOY.




In other news, I think I'll start watching Hawaii Five-O. It's boys with guns. I like it.



SO NOW THAT WE'RE DONE WITH MY TINY RAMBLE, LET'S HAVE A MEME, SHALL WE.


Ask me a fandom-related question in the comments. This can be fandom specific, general, or about fandom/lj stuff/fic writing/recs/etc. in general. Questions can be as wacky as you want. Ask me about tv shows, characters, fanfic in general, fandom issues/meta, anything about any of my stories specifically. Whatever you want. Dream big and/or strange.


(A ~work in progress fandom/ship list thing is going on in the sticky post. God help us.)
Depth: 1

Date: 2012-07-30 08:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upupa-epops.livejournal.com
I can have more than one question, because I can't decide I'm awesome like that.

1. Five prettiest D/E moments. I don't care about being ~deep. I want the most eyeball-pleasing scenes.

2. Favorite Logan quotes.
Depth: 2

Date: 2012-07-30 09:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
OH THIS WILL REQUIRE THINKING. Hm, pretty D/E?

This will be in no order whatsoever, cause, seriously, it's 10 in the morning and I've only had like 3 sips of coffee. AND A COOKIE! but I digress.


1. the dance in 2x18. because he makes weird faces for her AND HER FACE IS SO PRETTY and she has her hair up and does her "I'm turned on by you, Damon, a bit, but I really don't want to be" face.


2. DAMN THE DANCES. 3x14 obviously. Fairytale romance, indeed. Maybe that's the problem The way her hair looks from behind when she walks with both Salvatores and the ADORATION on his face when she enters. And sure, I know that wasn't just one scene.


3. the 3x19 kiss/scene before the kiss. Because his best move is holding the girls hands. Because he walks around half naked holding bourbon. Because of the way she exhales when he holds her hand. Because of the ~wind outside and the lights and the way the camera moves.


4. the talk in 1x19 (HA! NOT THE DANCE!) because her hair is gorgeous. Because he's in a suit. Because there's daylight in a vampire show, shining on my characters to make them even prettier. BECAUSE HER FACE IS IN IT. Because there's a mirror, so we get EVEN MORE OF THEM.


5. OK what not to like about this: I love wet hair. I love water, it's pretty. Everything is green. AND LOOK AT THEIR FACES. And the way she crosses her arms when she says "No"

(These are of course very changeable.)

You'll get your Logan quotes as well, at some point :D
Depth: 3

Date: 2012-07-31 09:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ever-neutral.livejournal.com
1. BEST. I feel like there should be some sort of gross chart of Elena's Damon-related "I'm reluctantly turned on by you" faces.

...

Yep.
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From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com - Date: 2012-07-31 02:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
Depth: 2

Date: 2012-07-30 10:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
1. THE NUMBER ONE CHOICE OBVIOUSLY. The speech. 2x20. Because there's a hint of tears in his eyes.

LOGAN: You know, I'm surprised, Veronica. And as a keen observer of the human condition, I thought you saw through people better than that.
Veronica looks at him questioningly.
LOGAN: Bimbos? That's not me anymore.
VERONICA: So what are you like now?
LOGAN: You know. Tortured. Ever since I had my heart broke.
VERONICA: Hannah really did do a number on you, huh?
LOGAN: Come on, you know I'm not talking about Hannah.
He stares at her, eyes intense and glistening. Veronica is taken aback as she realises that Logan is talking about her. She doesn't know how to react.
LOGAN: I thought our story was epic, you know? You and me.
VERONICA: Epic how?
Logan takes another swig.
LOGAN: Spanning years and continents. Lives ruined, bloodshed, epic.
Logan pauses, staring intently at her. Veronica doesn’t move.
LOGAN: But summer's almost here. And we won't see each other at all. Then you'll leave town then...it's over.
VERONICA: Logan...
LOGAN: I'm sorry. About last summer.
This surprises her. Logan is nearly in tears.
LOGAN: You know, if I could do it over...
Logan shuffles closer to her. Veronica makes a half-hearted attempt to dispel the tension.
VERONICA: Come on. Ruined lives, bloodshed? You really think a relationship should be that hard?
LOGAN: No one writes songs about the ones that come easy.
Logan shuffles closer to her again, his eyes never leaving her. Veronica doesn't move. She looks away, clears her throat and finally looks back at him, uncomfortable and uncertain. Logan leans his head closer to her. He reaches out and strokes her cheek. Veronica shivers slightly, sighs deeply and stares up at him. Logan leans closer and closer, about to kiss her. Veronica struggles to breath.
VERONICA: [strangled] I have to go. I have to go.


2. DOOMED BOYS FOREVER. 3.20

GORY: Whoever you are, you're gonna die.
LOGAN: Yeah, some day


3. FOREPLAY. 2.19

VERONICA: Got a question for you. Remember back when you were doing the deed with Dick's stepmom?
LOGAN: Hm, vaguely. I remember she thought I was hot.
VERONICA: Were you with her on the day of the crash? You two talked on the phone a few times that day.
LOGAN: Man, you're obsessed with my sex life. Do I need to start carrying around a webcam from now on?
Veronica pulls to a stop and warns him.
VERONICA: Logan!
LOGAN: Day of the crash, day of the crash...uh. I'd really have to consult my Feelings Journal to be sure.
(...)
LOGAN: Anything else?
Veronica shakes her head.
LOGAN: Oh. I, uh, I got to second base with Tammy Forrester in eighth grade in Duncan's closet.
Veronica rolls her eyes and walks past him into the school. Logan continues, addressing her back.
LOGAN: And last summer, I made this townie girl moan without even using my hands. Is any of this relevant? Should I make a list?


4. TALKING ABOUT FOREPLAY, aka I am predictable. 2.18

LOGAN: Ah, my buffalo burger has arrived.
As Wallace picks up the box and puts his stuff together, Logan gets the door. A waiter enters with a trolley. He pushes it into the room and Logan hands him a bill.
WAITER: Thank you.
The waiter leaves.
WALLACE: Must be nice.
Logan lifts the cover off his food.
LOGAN: Oh, not for the buffalo.
He dips a finger in and licks it before glancing back at Wallace.
LOGAN: You don't like me much, do you?
WALLACE: The last time we actually talked, you were bashing Veronica's headlights with a crowbar.
LOGAN: Hm. Foreplay.

5. THE ONE WHERE THEY AVOIDED L/V CHEESY SCENES AND INSTEAD GAVE US THIS. 2.13

Veronica: Get your ice cold frozen...sugar water.
Logan: You had me at "ice cold."
Veronica: What's your poison?
Logan: Ah, emotionally unavailable women.

Depth: 3

Date: 2012-07-30 10:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com

HONORABLE MENTIONS


2.20
LOGAN: Well, there was this one girl. She was uh, blonde, petite.
LOGAN: Smelled of marshmallows and promises.

VERONICA: Promises?
LOGAN: Yep.
VERONICA: That’s the name of my perfume!


1.07
Van Clemmons: Mr. Echolls, I was wondering if I could have a word?
Logan: Anthropomorphic. All yours, big guy.


1.10
Veronica: Look at you, all helpful.
Logan: Hey, your peskiness being unleashed on Conner brings me joy. Annoy, tiny blonde one, annoy like the wind!


1.13
Aaron: Have you heard from your sister?
Logan: She sent a telegram. Heartbroken. Stop. Can't make it back from Sydney. Stop. Underwater shoot starts tomorrow. Stop. Entire crew said prayer for mom. Stop. Love you. Stop.
Aaron: Logan...
Logan: Stop?
Depth: 1

Date: 2012-07-30 08:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bellonablack.livejournal.com
Veronica/Logan:

Classic.

I am new to your presence :) so what kind of ships do you like, what fic do you like read, what are some favorite movies of yours ?:)
Depth: 2

Date: 2012-07-30 09:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
HELLO YOU :)

I mostly read TVD fic. Mostly something with Damon or Elena in it. Katherine. Stefan is fabulous sometimes. The occasional Stefan/Caroline. Gossip Girl fic sometimes, exclusively Dan/Blair now that the days of Chuck/Blair are behind me. Now need to get some serious Lo/Ve fic reading done, SINCE I'M FINALLY DONE WITH THE SHOW. It was great. I miss it already.

ALL the Arya/Gendry (Game of Thrones) fic I can find. Which is NOT ENOUGH I TELL YOU. Also, Cersei/Jaime.

Usually fics with no plot, because, to quote [livejournal.com profile] ever_neutral: Plot is for the weak tbh.

Harry, Hermione, Draco, Luna are my loves and I will read almost anything with any combination of them four. Though I rarely find HP fic I really fall in love with. There were some great H/Hr and Hr/Dr piece. Those two ships <3

I've been feeling all fluffy lately so I'm hunting down New Girl fic, especially Cece/Schmidt. Those two are adorable.

I watch Big Bang Theory. Sheldon/Penny is interesting in fics though I'm completely aware it'll never happen in canon. Amy/Sheldon is adorable.

Also How I Met Your Mother: I don't think I've ever read fic, but Barney/Robin are great.

I rewatched Gilmore Girls recently. I still love Jess/Rory and Logan/Rory. Especially before either of the couples gets together. I'm weird like that.

I've been reading Batman comics lately and I've always found both Joker/Harley fascinating.

I haven't watched a lot of movies lately. Ocean's 11 will forever be my all time favorite movie.

If you have any other specific question I'd gladly answer :) Also it's very likely I forgot my OTP or something. I'm not the brightest :D
Depth: 3

Date: 2012-07-30 09:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
HOW ON EARTH DID I FORGET BUFFY? Buffy/Spike. BUFFY/SPIKE. BUFFY/SPIKE. FAITH WAS AMAZING. FAITH/BUFFY had sexual tension, we ALL SAW IT. Dawn/Andrew. Cause why not.

Skins were great. Cassie owns my heart.

I've seen season 1 of Lost. Boone/Shannon <3333

Also Community. Jeff/Annie primarily :)
Depth: 3

Date: 2012-07-31 09:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ever-neutral.livejournal.com
Plot is for the weak tbh.

Indeed, friend, indeed.
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From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com - Date: 2012-07-31 02:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
Depth: 1

Date: 2012-07-30 03:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xx-pinkstar.livejournal.com
OH

because this is where my head is always at, always

TOP 10 OTP's (and why, if you like) GO.
Depth: 2

Date: 2012-07-30 03:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xx-pinkstar.livejournal.com
AND ACTUALLY ALSO, BECAUSE I'M PARTIALLY FILLED WITH HATRED

TOP 10 MOST HATED SHIPS (and why, if you like ;o) GO.
Depth: 3

Date: 2012-07-30 04:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
OK SO, it's not that I hate these ships that I will mention. More that I have some ~issue with how their relationship was treated.

1. Leonard/Penny, on Big Bang Theory. My issues with this story are, as follows: not enough chemistry between me and L/P and (to my perception) between L and P. Other than some cute moments, of course. My two problems concern the way this story is being handled: 1. I feel that Leonard, episode to episode, HAS STILL NOT LEARNED anything. No Leonard, you don't have to be popular or extremely good looking or do things other people do just cause you want to be cool. What you have to learn is that it's ok to like things you like. And it's ok to do them, for that reason alone. And 2. I dislike that the ~message their story seems to be sending me is one of the things I dislike the most: the idea that if the guy tries hard enough EVENTUALLY he'll get the girl. THE LOVE OF A WOMAN IS NOT THE PRIZE FOR THE END OF THE JOURNEY, MEN. And I dislike shows that show us girls eventually giving into relationships with boys when I don't feel that it's because they like them, but because they think the boy deserves to be given a chance. Which, NO.

OH MY, all the words.

I will get back to you on the rest but I have to go now :D

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Date: 2012-07-30 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
YOU and your gorgeous icon. OH MY. Hm, before I start you have to know I can't ever determine the ~ultimate list of 10 OTPs, the shows I'm watching/have read fic/seen icons of/thought of lately always have influence over me. BUT we can try.

01. Damon/Elena. for all the reasons in the world. because misery loves company and they have an understanding and find each other in the dark and they act like idiots to cheer the other up and occasionally someone also gets thrown in the lake. which is awesome by definition.
02. Buffy/Spike. because he was awesome and she was awesome and he got one of the best character developments ever and their sex brought the house down and she didn't even notice until next morning. because she treated him as a man even when he was a monster and because their season 6 arc WAS A THING OF DESTRUCTIVE BEAUTY. (I feel a need to do a top 10 buffy episodes thing now. Grrr.) because you always hurt the one you love.
03. Logan/Veronica. OH THOSE TWO. because he's sarcastic and self destructive and SO PATHETIC that he convinces himself his mom's alive and she's there to make sure he doesn't fall completely apart when he realizes. And it happens completely by accident, she's only there cause he's paying her. And it's one of those stories where they can't ever really get away from each other even if they try/pretend to try. Also served to establish my fetish for shabby motel kisses. To quote [livejournal.com profile] upupa_epops, I have a type.
04. Harry/Hermione Let's break the pattern now that it's established, shall we (also a thing I love, breaking patterns.) when it's not the bad boy type, I tend to love the BFF story. OF COURSE as you can notice, these two didn't get together, but whatever. To the point: I loved their interaction, I loved their friendship moments, I loved their conversations and hugs and doing homework and sneaking around and how she would never ever leave him. Those two love each other soooo much, and I love watching them together.

Couples 5-10 coming when I return from watching The Dark Knight Rises :)

Depth: 3

Date: 2012-07-30 08:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xx-pinkstar.livejournal.com
OH DID YOU LOVE THE DARK KNIGHT RISES? I LOVED IT LIKE A BITCH.

GUH. I can't even. CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR LIFE CHOICES TO. BE. HONEST.

I don't watch Veronica Mars but I've heard good things about them from people who's opinion I trust deeply. so I'll automatically assume they're awesome.

1. Obviously Damon/Elena are the light of my life, fire in my loins etc etc
2. Buffy/Spike man. I think Buffy/Spike were my ship before I knew what shipping was and came into this crazy world of Internet. Basically you can take the award for sexiest ship to ever sex and keep it forever? I FUCKING LOVE SEASON 6 AND YOU JUST CANNOT SAY IT ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL BE OUT TO GET YOU. The only plot I just did not love was Xander/Anya wedding!fail because my heart literally could not take it and I still don't see the need in that breakup. And never will. OH ANYWAY. Buffy is the HBIC of my heart and soul and Spike is the BAMF of my heart and soul and they live there together and are happy and occasionally self destructive. It's beautiful.
4. OMG HARRY/HERMIONE SHIPPER *clings to your leg* I AM SO HAPPY THERE IS SOMEONE ELSE WHO WALKS IN THE PATH OF THE HARRY POTTER LIGHT. Basically H/Hr are the most functional, happy, rainbows and sunshine but also occasional dark and gloominess ship that never were.
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From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com - Date: 2012-07-30 10:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
Depth: 1

Date: 2012-07-30 04:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vergoldung.livejournal.com
Did you get rain yesterday?

Fanodm related, huh?


I AM FEELING SUICIDAL, SO LET'S GET DIRTY AND MEAN.

Gossip Girl thoughts. (I will regret this, but whatever. Want.)
Depth: 2

Date: 2012-07-30 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
Hm. I think we didn't? I'm not sure. I'm sure there was wind. But rain? This is embarrassing.

DO NOT FEEL SUICIDAL, OK? DO NOT EVEN JOKE ABOUT IT. Suicide jokes freak me out. IF IT'S NOT A JOKE, WELL, IT STILL FREAKS ME OUT.

Gossip Girl?

OH WELL. I WILL GIVE YOU MY SHINY HAPPY THOUGHTS, SO YOU HAVE NO EXCUSE TO FEEL DEPRESSED.

+ Jenny was fabulous. She had her grand HBIC moments that I loved. I wish she came back and slapped Dan a bit :D (not sure why in particular he needs slapping, but it can't hurt.)

+ Serena/Carter was a thing I shipped. Not even joking. He was a hot bastard and I'm shallow.

+ Blair is the most pretty thing in the show and I love her dearly and sometimes I want to hold her and pat her and tell her everything's going to be ok and that it's ok to want things and to want to want things.

+ I completely understand Blair constantly returning to Chuck.

+ I enjoyed Dan/Blair A LOT even though it was doomed from the start.

+ DOROTA DOROTA DOROTA IS AMAZING.

+ Nate is mostly boring to me.

+ I hope Lily's the real Gossip Girl. Or Eric.

+ I miss Eric.

*HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUG*


Depth: 3

Date: 2012-07-30 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vergoldung.livejournal.com
Worry not, suicidal feels are only ever induced by GG and they never last long enough to be of importance. There.

YOUR GG THOUGHTS WARM MY HEART.

Serena/Carter was so fucking good. I often forget about them, because the show did too. BUT MAN DID I SHIP IT LIKE BURNING OR WHAT.

Loved Jenny too. Still very bitter over the way fandom (especially Chair fandom) treated her. My poor babe. She's better off, far far away, doing awesome stuff without all that UES drama.

Blair is my queen. Always, always, always. Bless LM for her perfect face and flawless line delivery!

Miss Eric. He is the shit. Also, Dorota ♥ such a scene-stealer.
LOLOL if Lily turned out to be GG. That would be so fucking hilarious. (But I will never know. So if this happens, you'll need to tell me.)

So much word on CB and DB. That's probably why it hit me so hard. Because I understand. UGH THE WORST.

PS : We had rain here. And now everything is better.
PPS : How are you doing with the million of things you have to do? I am in the mood to pester.
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Date: 2012-07-31 09:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ever-neutral.livejournal.com
I AM IN A DAMON/ELENA MOOD BECAUSE OF YOUR PICSPAM OKAY. So, 5 favourite things about D/E.

A ~work in progress fandom/ship list thing is going on in the sticky post.

oh my ~god yay.

EDITING BECAUSE I TOTALLY FORGOT TO ~CRY OVER THAT LAST LOGAN/VERONICA MOMENT. COULDN'T HAVE ASKED FOR A BETTER (unresolved) ENDING TBH.
Edited Date: 2012-07-31 02:15 pm (UTC)
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Date: 2012-07-31 02:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
We're love's bitches and all that :D

OK I WILL THINK ABOUT IT. YOU WILL GET YOUR FIVE THINGS. Unfortunately I have the Dark Knight Rises post to finish and finish my cleaning and packing and have to go to the store because it's vacation time. BUT I WILL DO MY BEST (to respond to that and your million comments :P )

THAT ENDING IS FABULOUS. FABULOUS.
Depth: 1

Date: 2012-08-01 02:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nicalyse.livejournal.com
I'm here because your name was in my inbox four times in a row this afternoon. And also because I'm a teensy bit of a stalker - but who isn't on the internet?

I love Veronica Mars. I haven't read much fic, but have a rec: A Strange New Story Every Time. Logan/Veronica future!fic which includes FBI agent!Veronica, in-character banter, and a bonus appearance by Dick Casablancas.

I would also like to wave my Carter/Serena flag and vote for Sebastian Stan to guest star in everything I watch forever because he is always perfect. I also recommend reading Gossip Girl: Psycho Killer if you ever run across the copy. It's some of the most satisfying fanfiction I've ever read, very possibly because it's written by the author of the novels. So worth the $9.

And a question: How did you feel about the end of Logan and Rory's relationship?
Depth: 2

Date: 2012-08-08 08:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
I am prolific <3 I approve of stalking.

Oh good! I'll read it :) Banter is always welcome, as is Dick.

OH YES HOW IS HE SO FLAWLESS?

I will try to remember it :D

Hm, by the end, you mean season 7 when she declines his proposal? Unfortunately, can't say much :S Because I'm the worst and haven't actually seen season 7 :O
Depth: 1

Date: 2012-08-01 12:27 pm (UTC)
ext_317107: (VMars; Logan/Veronica; bloodshed)
From: [identity profile] stainofmylove.livejournal.com
Hmm, how about your favorite Logan/Veronica moments (of extreme dysfunction?), since this post is reminding me how hardcore L/V is my #2 ship, lol.
Depth: 2

Date: 2012-08-09 10:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
Oh hm, I have to think, ok. In random order, obviously :D

#1 1x15 with the whole logan being delusional about his mom's death deal. I adore him breaking down in the hotel lobby into her arms. I love that he has no one and she's only there because he payed her. All that counts as dysfunction, right?

#2 1x01 BECAUSE VIOLENCE IS GOOD ON TV SHOWS. because he tries to break her guy and she responds by getting a meaner guy to break him. because he later calls it all foreplay. be still my heart.

#3 3xwhenever. logan breaking the police car to get himself in jail on purpose to get to Mercer. she wasn't on screen, I know. I count it as a L/V moment.

#4 the season finale, in which he beats up her boyfriend, gets blood on the first four knuckles (JUST LIKE IN THE POEM!) and tries to apologize while she hates him all the while. oh veronica <3 also I'll count the later scene in the cafeteria in this as well :P because he seemed reasonable for a moment and then beat up the guy who taped her anyway. fuck self preservation.

#5 the alterna prom. THE SPEECH. EPIC LOVE STORY indeed, Logan. because she runs away. because he cries, a bit. because there's no moving on for either of them.

honorable mention: when she gets him into jail in season 1 and he calls her to help him and his lawyer's all "haha she's the one who reported you" and his face then :( and his poor broken heart.

(also sorry this took me such a long time :S)
Depth: 1

Date: 2012-08-03 12:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rosaxx50.livejournal.com
I will give you a tougher one.

Top five Elena/Stefan moments.

OR

Top five Veronica/not Logan moments. *Cackle*
Depth: 2

Date: 2012-08-14 01:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fluffyfrolicker.livejournal.com
I AM A BITCH. I AM SO LATE BUT HERE IT IS:

Top 5 Stefan/Elena. My brain is a bit mushy, but we'll see if this makes any sense.

+ 3x11 Wickery Bridge you had me. because it broke my heart. because their performances are marvelous. especially nina's.

+ 2x20 Elena doesn't want to be a vampire and tells her vampire boyfriend that they won't have forever, not really. and the scenery is pretty.

+ 3x01 phone call. GUH. FEELS. PAUL AND HIS FACE.

+ 1x19 Elena stabs Stefan. GLORIOUS PERFORMANCES of both of them.

+ 1x19 dance rehearsal scene. GLORIOUSLY having fun. Those two are adorable there <3
Depth: 3

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